AI's Impact on Global Search: The Next Era of International SEO | Michael Bonfils
Welcome back to The Search Session, I’m your host, Gianluca Fiorelli, and in today’s episode, I had the distinct pleasure of hosting a true veteran and global authority in international SEO: Michael Bonfils.
We covered a wide range of topics—from the rise of AI Overviews and zero-click searches to disappearing data and the uncertain future of localization in a world increasingly shaped by LLMs. This was far from your typical international SEO discussion.
Michael offered both strategic insights and deeply personal reflections, drawn from decades of hands-on experience across global markets. Together, we explored the "fires" burning in today’s search landscape, the possibility of future "walled gardens," and how the very definition of keywords and visibility is being rewritten in this AI-driven era.
Enjoy the episode!
Video Chapters
The Collapse of Old SEO Playbooks and Google's Unpreparedness
"Apocalittici e Integrati" AI version - Navigating Polarized Futures
AI Mode: What It Means for PPC, SEO, and the Shift Toward a Conversational Search Interface
The Data Black Hole: Measuring Visibility, Attribution, and Middle-of-Funnel Engagement
Are "Questions" the New Keywords? An International SEO Case Study
SEO in Walled Gardens - Maybe Google Wants to Become Like Baidu
Transcript
Gianluca Fiorelli: Hello, and welcome back to The Search Session—the video podcast series that aims to explore what SEO and search might look like in the near future. My goal here is to help you understand the next steps—whether strategic or tactical—that may not be trending right now, but that you'll definitely be hearing a lot about in the coming months.
Meet Our Guest: Michael Bonfils
Gianluca Fiorelli: Today, we’re diving into international SEO—or, more accurately, not just international SEO—with one of the field’s top experts. He’s the Global Managing Director of SEM International—or as we Italians might say, “S-E-M International”—and also the CEO of the Digital International Group.
I’m talking about the very kind, knowledgeable, and friendly Michael Bonfils.
Hi Michael, how are you doing?
Michael Bonfils: I’m good! How are you?
Gianluca Fiorelli: I’m fine, thanks. As we're recording this episode, it’s the end of the day here, but it’s a mild one. I'm in Spain, so spring is in full bloom. We’re slowly heading into summer, which is, in my opinion, the best season.
Michael Bonfils: Yeah, yeah, I love this season too. Honestly, I wish I was there. Although, I have to admit, California weather is usually pretty nice.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah?
Michael Bonfils: It’s a bit gloomy right now, but normally we get lots of new flowers, fresh air, sunshine...
Gianluca Fiorelli: Well, I hope the fire problems don’t come back again for you. I remember... wait, which part of California are you in?
Michael Bonfils: I’m in Southern California.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Okay.
Michael Bonfils: The fires aren’t super close to me, but, you know, fires are just kind of a normal thing here. We get them every year—we just don’t know where they’ll strike. This past year was a bit worse than usual. It felt like the northern L.A. area was a little unprepared.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah.
Adapting to the New Search Reality: ChatGPT Has Been One of the Most Disruptive Moments in the History of Search
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, yeah. Well, speaking of fires—let’s talk about the fires we’re living through in the search landscape.
How has search been treating you over the past few months—or even years—considering all these rapid changes?
Michael Bonfils: The look on your face probably sums up exactly how I’m feeling about all of this.
It’s been… a lot.
I think some people here know my background—I’ve been in this space since the very beginning. I’m talking 1994, 1995… maybe even ‘96. I was logging in back when it was basically still a research project. And I’m not bringing that up just to rattle off my history, but to say: I’ve seen a lot over the years.
Then came that date—November 30th, 2022—when Pandora’s box was opened with ChatGPT. The moment I saw it, I thought, This is the most disruptive thing our industry has ever seen.
It was a complete game changer. I tried to get the word out—tried to express what I was seeing and feeling to everyone I could, as quickly as I could. But I got a lot of resistance.
Still, the more I kept pushing, the more those concerns started coming true:
“Maybe traffic really is in jeopardy.”
“Maybe publishers are at risk.”
“Maybe even Google isn’t ready for this.”
And as an agency owner, I’ve seen firsthand the impact it’s had—not just on my own business, but across other agencies and consultants, too. We were already coming out of a period where hiring in marketing was expensive and difficult. Then the economy dipped. People were laid off. And then AI hit. It was like the perfect firestorm—just like those wildfires in LA. Everything converged all at once, and we were forced to stop and rethink everything: our strategies, our teams, our direction.
That’s where we are now.
The only difference from past shifts, like when social media came along, is that back then, we could still wrap our heads around the change. We could follow the evolution and slowly adapt. Now? You adopt something… and it’s obsolete in a month. A new tool or technology comes along and completely replaces what you just invested time in.
It’s moving so fast. Every time you think you’ve caught up, you’re behind again.
And sure, in the SEO world, we’re used to this rhythm. You finally get ranked, you finally see results—then boom, an update knocks you back. But at least back then, we had some breathing room.
Now? There’s no time to breathe. It’s just boom, boom, boom, boom.
That’s where I’m at right now. That’s what I’m dealing with.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes. And the updates didn’t stop. Everything just kept piling up. Yeah, I feel the same way.
Maybe I don’t have as long a professional story in SEO as you do—since I started about ten years later—but I’ve definitely experienced it firsthand, like the Florida update.
There were also those big announcements, like universal search is coming! That was a major change, too.
And like you were saying about social media—all the buzz back then. Now, it’s more about how budgets are allocated. Not so much in terms of hands-on work with social, but the importance and attention given to it as a marketing channel really shifted budgets—from search over to social.
Still, it felt like we were all living in the same ecosystem. Our beloved, everyday playground: Google.
And now it’s different, right?
The Collapse of Old SEO Playbooks and Google's Unpreparedness
Gianluca Fiorelli: In a way, maybe we’re lucky—we’ve lived through a world that doesn’t exist anymore. I always tell my sons—and I’m sure you say the same to yours—we grew up in a time without mobile phones, without the internet. You actually had to go to the library to find things.
But as professionals, we also experienced the early days of search. You mentioned working with tools like Yahoo—I caught the tail end of that era too, when search was more diverse, more multifaceted.
That’s probably why things feel tougher now for what I’d call the millennial or Gen Z SEOs—the ones who didn’t live through or work in that multifaceted search environment.
Maybe that’s something we need to reconnect with, especially considering all the recent updates. We need to think more about the full journey—not just on Google Search, but across the whole Google ecosystem: YouTube, Maps, everything.
And that’s the radical shift we’re facing now.
Michael Bonfils: I agree completely with what you said—it really is a radical shift. A big change.
Let me step back a bit to something I mentioned earlier: Google wasn’t prepared for this. And honestly, neither were we.
It's hard to wrap our heads around. You think, How could Google not be ready for this? They’ve been leading this space for so long. But the truth is—they weren’t ready. Not for the speed of it.
Google has been our bread and butter. They’ve been our partner. And realizing they’re not invincible—it’s like finding out your mom has cancer.
That’s the moment our industry had to face: Google isn’t perfect. They still have problems. And now they’re facing a totally disruptive change to their business model.
So, we have to step back and ask: How is Google going to fight this off? How are they going to stay relevant?
And at the same time, how do we survive?
We need to look at all kinds of areas—not just externally, but internally too. Maybe it's time to stop theorizing, stop panicking, and start embracing the change.
Let’s think differently. Let’s ask ourselves: How can I help Google? They’ve supported our businesses for so long—maybe now it’s our turn to support them.
How can I partner with them better? How do I make my content more useful? How do I work more effectively with AI Overviews—or whatever system comes next?
"Apocalittici e Integrati" AI version - Navigating Polarized Futures
Gianluca Fiorelli: I totally, totally agree.
And while I was listening to you, something came to mind—back when I was still very young, at university. I was incredibly lucky to have Umberto Eco as one of my professors.
One of his books came to mind just now. It’s called Apocalyptic and Integrated. It was only partially translated into English, but it explores two different visions of popular culture: one that's entirely negative and one that's completely positive.
And somehow, I feel like we’re living in that exact kind of moment.
There are people who see the future with a completely apocalyptic mindset—and others who see only the positive, the opportunity.
Because honestly, they’re just as stuck as we are. And instead of fighting it, we should embrace it.
I really believe that the people who embrace this shift—they’re the ones who will survive and thrive through this disruption we’re all living right now.
That’s how I see it.
Michael Bonfils: Mm-hmm.
Gianluca Fiorelli: I don’t want to use the meme-worthy term AI Bros, but let’s just say—there are definitely some extreme reactions out there.
You’ve got the maximalist “AI overview will fix everything” crowd. People claiming, you’ll get hundreds of better leads thanks to ChatGPT visibility! and so on.
But let’s be realistic. It’s not going to be a total disaster—but it’s also not going to be the AI paradise some people are painting.
AI Overviews and Their Real Impact on European SEO
Gianluca Fiorelli: Let’s take AI Overviews, for instance. I’m here in Spain, and just about a month ago, AI Overviews were finally—or maybe sadly, depending on your perspective—rolled out across EU countries. They had already been live in the UK for some time.
Now, as someone who runs an agency focused on international SEO: how much have you seen clients targeting European countries start to feel the impact of AI Overviews?
Was it like when Panda was rolled out—when Europe saw it hit about seven months after the US?
Or had you already prepared your clients for this, so they were ready and maybe less affected than others who didn’t take any action?
Michael Bonfils: Yeah, so—let me break this down a bit.
One thing I spend a lot of time on is trend data. I’ve got some notes here. We’ve been tracking trends with our clients for years now.
Now, a lot of people tend to separate paid and organic, but the truth is—they work hand in hand. There’s plenty of data you can share between the two. I won’t get into that right now, though.
The main trend data I focus on includes click-through rates, average search volume across clients and industries, and CPCs. CPCs can be useful indicators, though since we’re talking organic SEO here, let’s set CPC aside for a moment.
Looking at click volume specifically:
Years ago, our benchmark volume was 141. Now, it’s 134. So yes, we’ve definitely seen a drop in volume.
Historically, when volume dropped, we often saw CTR go up—because fewer people were searching, but those who were, tended to be more qualified.
But right now? CTR is dropping too.
In fact, current average click-through rates are at their worst levels since 2019—during the pandemic. Before that, they were never this low. So, what we’re seeing now is unprecedented: volume is down, CTR is down.
And if we bring CPCs back into the conversation for a second—they’re historically high.
So now we’ve got the perfect storm:
CTR is down
Search volume is down
CPCs are way up
What does that mean? ROI is taking a serious hit. Clients are leaning on organic to make up for it—but they can’t find the traffic. It’s just not there.
So, are AI Overviews having an impact in Europe now that they're rolling out?
100%. Absolutely.
And they’re going to continue changing things.
Google is making changes to try and manage this shift. Let me check my notes here... (pause) I want to make sure I get the term right—they're calling it AI mode.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Oh yes.
AI Mode: What It Means for PPC, SEO, and the Shift Toward a Conversational Search Interface
Michael Bonfils: Have you seen the AI Mode tab?
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, I have. I actually had to use a VPN to access it, but I managed to see it almost the same day it rolled out. I was really quick to request access to the beta testing.
And yes, it’s evolving very fast.
Honestly, this came up in a conversation I had with Cindy Krum. We were just wrapping up when we realized—Google is testing AI Mode in exactly the same way they tested SGE before rolling out AI Overviews.
So for me, for Cindy, and for those watching—you can actually read that conversation with Cindy Krum on the Advanced Web Ranking blog - we believe that ultimately, Google will push AI Mode as the default search experience.
Michael Bonfils: You're 100% right. You know exactly where I was going with this.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, and we were also talking about that whole debate around whether Google can actually monetize AI.
And our take was—if AI Mode becomes highly personalized, like really tightly tailored to individual users, then it might actually be even better for PPC.
Why? Because with Performance Max and all the AI-driven advertising opportunities Google already offers, that kind of hyper-personalization fits perfectly.
Google knows how to monetize that. The problem is—they’re hesitant to push users from one experience to another too abruptly.
That’s why we’re in this sort of transitional phase.
Right now, you get these odd search results pages: there’s the AI block at the top, then the classic SERP underneath, which was already cluttered, and now it’s even more chaotic.
Michael Bonfils: Yeah, yeah—you’re absolutely right. And I’m thinking the same thing.
AI Overviews are definitely going to evolve.
When you start using this new format, it becomes clear: this is probably what the future of Google is going to look like. It’s shifting from a search experience to more of a chat experience.
That also means we’re moving away from the traditional keyword model we’ve been used to—and I think we all recognize that by now. It’s becoming a conversational experience.
From what I understand, in the next few weeks—or maybe a month—Google will be introducing new ad types and other features that will be built directly into this AI system.
So yeah, we’re all waiting to see how that plays out. And honestly, it’ll probably be good. Google tends to do a solid job with innovations like Performance Max and other paid-side tools.
The Data Black Hole: Measuring Visibility, Attribution, and Middle-of-Funnel Engagement
Michael Bonfils: But when it comes to organic, there’s an area I’ve really been struggling with—and that’s zero-click.
For anyone listening who might not know what that means: zero-click is when someone interacts with AI, say, in a conversation format, and they get all the information they need without ever clicking through to a website.
For example, let’s say I’m comparing two different running shoes. I tell the AI:
"I run on gravel. What’s better—this shoe or that one?"
AI pulls from existing content—schema-optimized or otherwise—and gives me a full answer. But it doesn’t send me to the original source. No clicks. That’s zero-click.
And without that click, we don’t get the data.
That’s a huge problem for organic content strategy. Because we rely on that data—especially in the middle of the funnel, during the consideration phase.
We all know the funnel: awareness → consideration → decision.
The consideration stage is critical. And we’re not getting that insight anymore.
I’ve searched everywhere—tried everything—but zero-click means we’re flying blind.
So the big question is: Who’s going to provide that data?
Will Google eventually offer it? Could they? Would they? And how would they do it?
That kind of data is vital. I need to know what those conversations are about—what comparisons people are making, what questions they’re asking—because my entire content strategy depends on that middle-of-the-funnel visibility.
Gianluca Fiorelli: I think we’ve all been asking the same question lately.
Actually, we brought this up recently at the Madrid Search Central event, during a conversation with some Googlers, not just John Mueller, but also folks involved directly in AI and especially in Search Console, from the product engineering side.
Naturally, the question was: When are you going to offer us a filter view for AI—like the ones we already have for Performance, Search, Discover, and News?
And the answer was: Not now.
Because, as they said, AI is still being tested. They still don’t know exactly what it’s going to look like in the end.
But I think there’s a bigger issue. A structural problem.
How do you even measure something like this? How do you define an average position or track performance for answers that are generated on the fly?
Michael Bonfils: Exactly—where does positioning go?
Gianluca Fiorelli: I mean, we do have some tools now. One of them is Advanced Web Ranking - they’re testing a tool specifically for AI visibility.
The way they—and others—are calculating position in the AI Overview is still rooted in classic ranking methods. For example, when you click on that tiny link icon in an AI Overview, you can see all the sources listed on the right. Those positions are being tracked and measured.
But I think maybe we’re looking at a shift.
Visibility, once treated as a more general or secondary metric, might actually become the main metric going forward.
We could work with representative query sets—clusters of queries that reflect user intent across different variations—and then measure average visibility across those sets. Especially when compared against direct competitors, that could be our new benchmark.
Why? Because attribution is going to be nearly impossible in many cases.
We might only be able to trace direct traffic when there’s a visible link that gets clicked. But a big part of our value will be in making our clients—and our own websites—present across all the potential journeys AI conversations generate.
That doesn’t always lead to clicks. In fact, many of those journeys will be zero-click because the conversation continues within the AI interface.
So it’s no longer a simple "search → click" or even "search → refine → click" journey.
Visibility in this new AI-driven context may be the best way to demonstrate our impact. We’ll need to show:
Direct traffic tied to visible links
Increases in traffic to pages that are appearing in AI responses
From there, we can start building correlations. That might be the only viable way to demonstrate the kind of success we’re achieving for our clients.
And of course, we’ll have to tie all of that back to conversions—because at the end of the day, our clients don’t care about traffic unless that traffic converts.
Are "Questions" the New Keywords? An International SEO Case Study.
Michael Bonfils: You're 100% right.
And that’s the thing—our model, our SEO business model, has always been based on keywords. Data around keywords. Strategy built on keywords.
Now? Keywords are gone.
So what replaces them? How are we going to approach this from now on—especially at a global level?
The only answer I’ve been able to come up with is this: FAQs become the new keywords.
We need to take the whole question—the full query—and as many variations of those questions as possible that relate to a product, and optimize around that.
So the FAQ, the question and the answer together, that becomes the “keyword” we focus on moving forward.
Because that’s what’s going to feed into the conversation. That’s how AI is going to engage.
Now, let me tie that into international SEO, because this gets really interesting—and actually pretty timely.
Years ago—I think it was HP or Lenovo, one of those big brands—they came to us, as an agency. The task was: localize and optimize all of their FAQs for Germany.
We said, “Great. Let’s start with the briefing.”
In the briefing, we asked: “What tone do you want for your German audience? Should it be formal? Informal? More relaxed?”
And they came back and said, “You know what? Let’s mirror the U.S. tone—make it more informal, relaxed, cool, friendly.”
So we did that. We localized all the FAQs in a more casual tone. The work looked great. We handed it off.
Then they sent it to their German partners… and they just about crapped their pants.
“Never, ever make FAQs informal in German,” they said.
In Germany, the expectation is that everything—even FAQs—must be in formal tone. Period.
So we had to redo all of it.
That was years ago, but it was a painful and expensive lesson—and one the agency learned well: always get the brief right, and understand how tone works culturally.
Now, we’re in a totally different world with international SEO.
We’ve touched on this earlier: LLMs and all the new tools we have now make us more efficient as consultants. We can handle large projects with fewer people. Maybe we still need proofreaders, but we don’t need big teams the way we used to.
That’s a fantastic evolution.
But here's the thing: when you're doing it all yourself, do you really know that tone in Germany needs to be formal? Do you know that Spain might be more informal? Do you know all those cultural nuances that come with localization?
And then there’s how Google sees it all.
Let’s take Spanish, for example. You've got Mexican Spanish, Argentinian Spanish, Spain Spanish, Colombian Spanish...
Each of those markets has different expectations when it comes to tone, formality, vocabulary.
Will Google get that right in AI Mode?
Will it know how to handle those differences in the context of conversational search?
That’s something I’ve really been thinking about. How is Google going to deal with this?
Gianluca Fiorelli: I hope so.
But honestly, Google’s never really been able to handle this properly.
We're talking about deep localization here. Even now, AI Mode or not, Google still struggles to interpret proper hreflang implementation.
For example, we could be using AI Overviews as a way to test whether Google truly understands hreflang—so it doesn’t show a Mexican website in Spain, or a UK version in the U.S. or Canada.
But in many cases, it still doesn’t get it right.
And actually, that leads me to a question I wanted to ask you—about something very recent that Google announced.
They’re going to sunset regional ccTLDs like google.it or google.co.uk, and move everything under google.com.
Now, of course, they’ve said, “Don’t worry, you’ll still get localized results depending on your location.”
But, I don’t know. Maybe it’s because I’m used to working on google.com for professional purposes, but when I search on google.com vs google.es here in Valencia, I often see basically the same results.
So, this is already something Google was doing. Whether they were doing it well—that’s another story.
But now I’m thinking about the tools.
The tools we use for international SEO rely on those regional Google domains.
So what are toolmakers going to do with this change?
Will they have to start relying on hundreds of VPNs and rotating IPs from different locations, using all sorts of infrastructure just to simulate local search visibility under one domain—google.com?
Because that’s where things could get really problematic.
Michael Bonfils: It goes back to zero-click. This is zero-click.
That’s why I keep coming back to it—because zero-click means no data.
The tools need data. They need it from our sites. But with zero-click, the interaction isn’t happening on our site—so where do we get that data from?
And the truth is, there’s no clear answer.
I’ve researched everything out there, and most of what I find is just assumptive. And I don’t like assumptive. I want to see data that’s actually being pulled from my website.
This is a massive problem.
SEO in Walled Gardens - Maybe Google Wants to Become Like Baidu
Michael Bonfils: Now, regarding the drop of ccTLDs—this is where it gets interesting.
Let’s rewind back to what I said when I introduced myself. I got started in this space when Yahoo was still a college project. But what did I personally use back then? AOL.
And AOL was a walled garden. There were no domains—it just had its own content.
And I think we might be seeing history repeat itself.
Maybe Google is becoming the next AOL. Okay, maybe we’re not going to get CDs in the mail, but it’s starting to feel like a massive walled garden again—where they protect their data, and protect all the content they’ve “collected” from the web.
It’s starting to look like the British Museum: all of our content, curated and displayed, but not really shared back.
Instead, they build a great ecosystem—for advertisers, and for publishers, especially around things like video.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Maybe.
Or maybe we’re seeing Google literally jump the shark.
Maybe Google wants to become Baidu. Or maybe even Naver.
Michael Bonfils: Yeah, you’re right. It really could end up being like Baidu—or even Naver.
And here’s what’s interesting: if you look at how Baidu works in China, it’s actually a really solid platform for research. People go there to find information.
But once they’re done researching, they shift over to WeChat to have conversations.
That’s where the real social interaction happens—a mix of Reddit-style threads, user reviews, social media, and live chats. They talk about what they just researched with actual people.
Then, when they're ready to buy, they move to yet another platform.
So, in that context, Google might be setting itself up for a similar kind of future—a walled garden model.
And maybe it has to.
If you look at ChatGPT right now, it’s already a walled garden. Meta’s infrastructure is shifting more and more toward its own closed ecosystem too.
So the big question is: what happens to SEO—especially international SEO—if everyone moves into walled gardens?
What happens to our ccTLDs? Our websites?
They’ll still exist, of course—we’ll still need a destination, a playground for our customers to land on.
But how those sites show up in Google?
In a world where search becomes conversation, and conversation happens inside a walled garden...
It’s definitely not going to be about blue links anymore.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe fewer blue links—and more other things.
So, if you're in e-commerce, it’s about truly mastering Google Merchant. If you rely on local visibility, it's about really mastering Google Maps, and so on.
Localization in the Age of AI Tools
Gianluca Fiorelli:Now, just one last question about international SEO.
AI can be a powerful tool—especially when it comes to something that usually takes a lot of time: localization.
I remember during a presentation you shared at Pubcon, you showed a fantastic tool that had been built specifically for localization. You tested it against human-written localizations, and the results were almost indistinguishable.
Now, we've all lived through the “tragedy” of machine translation—Google Translate, Duolingo-style outputs, all of that.
But do you think we’re finally reaching a point where we can speed up localization using AI, while still keeping quality high?
So that we can give true professional translators the right work—like the more creative, complex content that really requires transcreation—
Michael Bonfils: Transcreation, yep.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes! That’s the word I was looking for—transcreation.
So, we’d be handing off the real marketing-oriented content to local professional writers, giving them the freedom to craft it well for their market.
Meanwhile, the more repetitive stuff—product descriptions, templates, things that always need localization but not high-level creativity—we leave that to the “low-class worker,” which in this case is AI.
Are we heading in that direction?
Michael Bonfils: We’ve finally reached that level.
When it comes to localization, and maybe a lot of folks on the call already know this, but it’s important to say—translation and localization are very different. Translation is just that: taking a word and converting it to another language. But localization is about intent. It’s about emotion. It’s about formatting and adaptation. It involves all these different layers.
And the only way to truly get there is by understanding the country, the language, and the culture. I like to call it the "CCL tone"—Country, Culture, and Language. Really understanding how those work together. Most translators don’t really grasp that fully.
What we’ve done—and this is part of the service we provide, especially for some really big, well-known companies—is focus on the localization of their ads.
Traditionally, this localization work has been handled by our localization teams: translators, reviewers, and so on. But with so many people involved to make sure everything is just right, the cost has always been pretty high.
Now, thanks to the tools we’ve been able to create—even the GPTs we’ve worked with—they’re getting really, really close. Every time we get a new project, we’ll have our localization team work on it, and we’ll also run it through our tools. Then we compare the results side by side. And I’d say, at this point, we’re at about a 95% accuracy rate with the AI.
That means only a 5% discrepancy. To put that in perspective, if 100% means the localization is perfect, then having only 5% off is amazing. Ten years ago, human translators were at about 80%, so a 20% miss rate.
Now, we have tools that can get localization fine-tuned to that 95% level. Yes, it still needs human proofreading and a few tweaks, but that’s an incredible achievement.
And because of this, the cost of localization has dropped—by anywhere from 50% to 80%. That’s huge. The speed is there. The cost is down. The efficiency gains are just incredible.
For me, this is super exciting. We’re getting to the point where I can say, “For this business in Spain, let’s launch it in five countries within two weeks.” And we can actually do it.
That used to be unthinkable. The planning involved would’ve made it impossible. But now? It’s absolutely doable.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, exactly. It used to be the classic bottleneck for many companies trying to grow internationally. The technical side, in the end, could be complicated—well, maybe not complicated, but more complex.
Even when everything was really well planned over a long period of time, things just... never seemed to get completed. Rollouts would be scheduled, teams would start them, but they’d never fully finish. We had the data, sure, but the execution? It was always a challenge.
Now, I’m seeing the same thing, but AI is really starting to help. It’s speeding things up in a meaningful way.
Of course, you still need experience—years of working on these kinds of projects—to quickly detect when that 5% error rate shows up. Especially because if that 5% happens to affect key pages, it can have a dramatic impact, even if the percentage seems small.
But yes, overall, AI is proving to be a real advantage for us in SEO. It’s becoming an essential tool.
The "Voilà" Song Localisation Case Study
Michael Bonfils: It really has.
In the presentation I gave—just to give the audience some context—the insights were actually pretty fascinating. I used the song Voilà, a French song that’s incredibly meaningful. It’s about vulnerability. And if you're French and you hear it, it can genuinely bring tears to your eyes.
So first, we translated it—just a straight translation. Then we played that version for an English-speaking audience. And the reaction was… well, people thought the lyrics were nice. They could tell it was a lovely song. But it didn’t evoke the same emotion. It didn’t move them.
Then we took it to the next level: localization. How do you localize emotion? We essentially rebuilt the lyrics to speak directly to the hearts of English speakers. And even now, when I send that version to my mom, she tears up. She cries. That’s when you know—you’ve actually translated an emotion. That’s pretty incredible.
Another thing I’ve been doing—and I mentioned this before, but it’s kind of next level and something I love—is using Character.ai and ChatGPT to create virtual focus groups with different audiences from different countries.
For example, we had this snowboarding backpack. So I created this scenario: a Spanish skier going to Switzerland, meeting up with Swiss skiers, and talking about the backpack. Each of these “characters” used their own tone, behaviors, and perspectives, all based on psychographic data we’d collected.
We programmed these AI bots with that data, and when they got together to discuss the backpack, they generated content they all agreed on and genuinely liked. That content became our content strategy.
So, going back to what I said earlier—this is how we're developing content strategies now. Instead of putting keyword data at the center of our customer journeys, we’re putting real behavior and emotion at the center.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, totally. Totally.
Michael Bonfils: And using bots to do it.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, totally. That’s a very cool idea. Honestly, I hadn’t thought about it before.
Especially because, in most cases, Character.ai tends to highlight the darker or more chaotic sides of behavior. But using it this way—as a testing tool—makes a lot of sense. You could simulate and test different solutions before actually deploying them.
It becomes a relatively low-cost way to A/B test ideas before rolling anything out.
Michael Bonfils: A hundred percent. And you can do it by culture, too.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, yeah, that’s a really great idea.
Closing Fun: The Fireside Questionnaire
Gianluca Fiorelli: Okay, Michael—I’d love to keep talking with you for another hour, honestly, but we’re already hitting the one-hour mark.
Before we wrap up, I don’t want to let you go without asking a few quick, light-hearted questions. Just some fun ones, to help people get to know you a bit better—not just as a web professional, but as a person.
Don’t worry, we’re not going into anything too uncomfortable!
Michael Bonfils: No, it’s not—I love that.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Right? Okay, so let’s start with something simple.
What’s the first thing you like to do in the morning—aside from, you know, the usual?
Michael Bonfils: Definitely, yeah. My morning routine is all about the process of making my coffee.
I’ve got my espresso machine, my Lavazza and my Illy beans… it’s a whole ritual. I really enjoy that process—grinding the beans, pulling the shot—it just sets the tone for my day. And here it is, right next to me. I love it. It helps me start the day feeling fresh and grounded.
And for those who want to know a little more about me—and maybe why I do what I do internationally—it’s really in my DNA.
On my mom’s side, I’m Greek. On my dad’s side, French and Italian. So I grew up in a very multicultural family. We went to Greek Orthodox church, took part in all the Greek events… but we were here in the U.S.
My parents separated when I was one, and my dad remarried a German woman, Helga Fritz. So I’ve got this mix: German, French, Italian, and of course, Greek. All wrapped up in my American identity.
I went to college in France, then moved to Hungary, where I married a Hungarian woman—my ex-wife—and we had kids there.
And I swear, my kids are the most international kids you can imagine. They’re incredibly culturally aware. When we have family reunions, it’s a mix of cultures, cuisines, and foods. It’s amazing.
So if you’re wondering why I love what I do, why international work is such a passion for me, it’s because it’s at the core of who I am. It’s how I was raised.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, totally.
Well, it’s a little different for me. I always say—I’m Italian. I started doing SEO for Italian clients, and as you know, Italian is a wonderful language… but it’s spoken only in Italy.
So, for us, almost every business that wants to grow ends up needing an English version of their site, at the very least. For Italian companies, doing SEO almost always means thinking internationally from the start. It’s part of the game.
Alright—one more question!
Since we’re talking about all the cultures that are part of your DNA, I’m curious: for each one of them, what’s the first thing that comes to mind? What’s something—an image, a tradition, a feeling—that you associate with each of those cultures in your background?
Michael Bonfils: Yeah—you know, that’s a really good question.
I honestly feel very blessed. On my Southern Mediterranean side, I’ve got heart. And to me, heart equals passion. That kind of genuine emotion and passion—people are drawn to it.
And I don’t mean that in an egotistical way. People who know me know that when I speak, I mean what I say. There’s sincerity there. You can feel it when you talk to me, and you can feel it when you meet me. It’s very real.
Now, on my dad’s side, I have a more conservative influence. That side of the culture is much more about structure and discipline—it’s almost the opposite of heart. It’s about having business sense: “This is how you do things. This is the right way. Follow the structure.”
And that’s why I say I’m blessed—because I grew up with exposure to both sides. And over the years, I’ve tried to take the best parts from each.
By the way, you’ll notice my hands are moving a lot as I talk—that’s just part of it too! Even though you can’t see me right now, trust me, I’m holding my hands down here trying not to wave them all over the place. [laughs]
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Just to end with a laugh—I'm Italian, so of course I use my hands a lot when I speak.
One time, I almost got into trouble in Seattle. I was there for a MozCon, and—you know how it is—as Italians, when someone talks about money, we have that specific hand gesture. But apparently, to someone who didn’t know the context, it looked a little... aggressive, like a gun gesture.
The guy I was talking to started to get a bit tense! [laughs] So yes, I’ve learned I need to keep my hands under control sometimes, too.
Michael, thank you so much for joining me for this wonderful conversation. I’m sure all our listeners and viewers have taken away something valuable—whether professionally or personally.
And to everyone watching or listening, do me a small favor—it only takes five seconds: click Subscribe, and hit the notification bell so you won’t miss any of the upcoming episodes. We’ve got more amazing guests on the way, just like our incredible guest today, Michael Bonfils.
Michael Bonfils: Thank you, guys!
Podcast Host
Gianluca Fiorelli
With almost 20 years of experience in web marketing, Gianluca Fiorelli is a Strategic and International SEO Consultant who helps businesses improve their visibility and performance on organic search. Gianluca collaborated with clients from various industries and regions, such as Glassdoor, Idealista, Rastreator.com, Outsystems, Chess.com, SIXT Ride, Vegetables by Bayer, Visit California, Gamepix, James Edition and many others.
A very active member of the SEO community, Gianluca daily shares his insights and best practices on SEO, content, Search marketing strategy and the evolution of Search on social media channels such as X, Bluesky and LinkedIn and through the blog on his website: IloveSEO.net.
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