E-Commerce in the Age of AI and Omnichannel Search | Marco Loguercio
Back on The Search Session! I’m your host, Gianluca Fiorelli, and this time I’m talking with Marco Loguercio, digital strategy advisor in Italy. We explore how e-commerce is evolving in the age of AI and why understanding how people search—across platforms, devices, and moments—is now essential for creating meaningful product experiences. From data to emotion, this conversation is about bringing content, commerce, and search closer together.
Here’s what we’ll unpack:
Fresh reveals from the Osservatorio Search in Italy on Omnichannel search across Google, social, marketplaces, and chat.
Search fatigue from guessing leads to slow purchases, while listening to real intent shortens buying sessions.
Treat content as part of the product—not a budget line. Orchestrate text, images, and video to raise perceived value and drive purchase.
Product pages that pair emotional imagery with clear answers—sparking “want it” and removing doubt convert better.
The online–offline divide is dissolving as buyers shop by opportunity, not channel. Seamless journeys win.
ChatGPT’s Etsy and Shopify integrations are bringing checkout into the chat, with outcomes hinging on user behavior and first-party data control.
You’ll hear the full story—and practical takeaways—inside the episode. Enjoy it!
Video Chapters
Transcript
Gianluca Fiorelli: Hi, I’m Gianluca Fiorelli, and today I’m joined by a good friend of mine—an Italian like me—who may not be widely known in the international SEO community yet, but absolutely deserves to be because of his knowledge, skills, insights, and experience.
He recently transitioned into consultancy after many years as the founder and owner of a very famous Italian SEO agency, called Find. Now, he works as an e-business and e-commerce advisor for B2C companies and DTC brands.
This person is Marco Loguercio. Hi Marco, how are you doing?
Marco Loguercio: Hi, Gianluca, I’m fine. Thank you for having me on your podcast.
Gianluca Fiorelli: You’re very welcome! The pleasure is all mine. Let’s start, as usual, with my classic icebreaker: How is SEO treating you lately?
Marco Loguercio: Well, believe it or not, I started doing SEO 30 years ago—back in 1996. At the time, I was working as a journalist, and I had just discovered the web. So, I started building my first website, and since I already knew how to write very well, I didn’t have any kind of problem writing content for the website.
I was also a bit of a data freak, so I began using early log file analyzers—and that’s when I discovered that several visits were coming from search engines. Being a naturally curious person, I wanted to understand how that worked.
This was all in the era before Google, in the early days of SEO. I started figuring out how to optimize the website I was creating to gain visibility and attract traffic.
So, after 30 years, and I’ll admit—I was starting to feel a bit bored. But then ChatGPT arrived, and it was like having a new motivation. When ChatGPT started being used also as a search engine—and without any kind of information about how people use it, the kind of prompts people are writing, and how many people are really using it in Italy and worldwide—I decided to focus my attention with my “observatory”.
Because, you know, since 2004, when I started my first agency, at that time all the information related to how people were using search engines was coming from the U.S.
So, Italy was a completely different country. And in 2004, I decided to create my own “observatory” in order to get firsthand information. Since then—every year, or every three to six months—I repeat this kind of analysis. I monitor how Italians use search engines, specifically before buying products.
Since 2004, I have also started monitoring the evolution of the way people search: if they’re typing questions, if they’re using voice, if they’re using pictures. So, when ChatGPT started being used as a search engine—and Bing also started using Copilot, and Perplexity began gaining traction in Italy—I decided to focus my attention on one thing: trying to figure out how to measure and answer the question: “Okay, but how is ChatGPT really being used in Italy when people are in purchase mode? How influential is it?”
Because these new LLMs are becoming the new gatekeepers of the narrative—both of the brand and of the products. So I started asking: “How is ChatGPT—or, in Italy, where AI Mode isn’t yet available—or Perplexity, how are they presenting my brand? How are they presenting my product? Are they guiding people toward my website, helping them buy my products? Or, on the other side, are they moving people away—convincing them to buy elsewhere?”
That’s why, after 30 years, I’ve started feeling something new again—a new energy, new vibes—when we talk about SEO and search in general.
Is SEO Becoming Commoditized?
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, I think that’s a sensation many of us share. I mean, SEO has somehow become commoditized in terms of best practices—even though we’ve still had those classic scary moments whenever Google rolled out an update.
I don’t know about you, but personally, I’d just think, “Okay, it’s another update… let’s see what this one is about,” and so on and so on. But the enthusiasm wasn’t really there anymore—it really depended on the project.
But with the arrival of LLMs, yes, a new thing is coming. I feel like a student again. And now we get to see how things are changing, how we can take advantage of it, and how we can help our clients benefit from it, too.
Marco Loguercio: Also, because you said SEO is commoditized, and that’s true. I’ve had prospects tell me: “Okay, but why should I invest in your company? Why should I invest in SEO services when we can just do it with ChatGPT?”
And when I got that kind of answer, I was honestly impressed. “Do managers really believe that a tool alone can optimize a website?” A tool can analyze the way people engage with your website, the kind of information they need in order to decide and to buy a product—but do you really believe that one tool can do all of that?
So the real question becomes: “How can we demonstrate our value?” Because—as you said—SEO has started to feel like a commoditized checklist of things to do. But I’ve never believed that SEO is just that.
When you work, for instance, with an e-commerce website—and the e-commerce players are constantly adding new products or services—you have to work on those product pages, on their category pages, in order to improve performance. To increase visibility, to increase visits, and to increase conversions.
It’s not a “set it and forget it” kind of project, like many people believe. It’s a challenge. And honestly, I felt really enthusiastic again—motivated to show people that no, ChatGPT is not the answer. ChatGPT is a tool. It’s something we can use to do more, to be empowered—but it’s not an SEO.
The Omnichannel Search in Italy 2025
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, totally right. And one outcome of this curiosity of yours is a wonderful report you’ve created. Hopefully, soon, as you told me before we started recording, it’s also going to be available in English.
It’s called—let me use the correct title—The Omnichannel Search in Italy 2025. And yes, it’s focused on Italy, which of course has its own peculiarities like every country does. But I really think this report presents insights that can resonate with many other markets as well—especially when it comes to the hidden problems and potential solutions you’ve outlined in the PDF, in the study. A lot of those issues can be common to every market.
When it comes to the study, I know why you decided to call it “the omnichannel” instead of something like “LLM Usage in Italy 2025,” or “How Italians Use ChatGPT,” or “AI Search in Italy 2025”. But you chose omnichannel. Would you like to explain why that word? Why “omnichannel” and not something else?
Marco Loguercio: Because I wanted to focus attention on the fact that search is not only Google-centric. You know, it’s easier for the industry to say, “Okay, we have to focus on Google.”
Ninety-nine percent of SEO projects are mainly focused on Google—because, you know, Google means search, and search means Google. At least, that’s how it is for most of us. But if you ask my daughter, who’s 18, or my younger kids, who are six—they search using TikTok. They search using YouTube. They barely even know the word “Google.”
So why omnichannel? Because there’s a detail that, only in the last few years, people really started considering: people are searching on TikTok. Like I said, people are searching on YouTube. People are searching on Instagram. But that’s not actually new.
Going back to 2016, for instance—in my study at that time—I was already showing that people were using other search properties, within social networks and entertainment platforms, because they want to get different kinds of information—whether they’re searching for a product, a service, or just general information.
In Italy, when people are in buying mode, they use at least three search properties. They might start with Google, then go on to TikTok or YouTube. Then it can be Amazon—because Amazon is also, in Italy, the most important product search engine.
If you look at younger people, especially in the beauty industry—for instance, those under 24—the most important search platform is TikTok. If I remember correctly, for around 40 to 45% of those young people, Google isn’t even in the top three search properties. It’s fourth or fifth. So we’re talking about a new generation that doesn’t rely on Google for search.
And also, with the advent of generative search engines, they’re not cannibalizing other search properties. I know from our survey that 55% of Italians who use ChatGPT as a search engine also use Google. They might start on Google and then move to ChatGPT to dig deeper. Or they might start with ChatGPT, then go to Google to get confirmation, more information, or find out where to buy.
So, it’s a synergy—it’s not one killing the other, like the press often says. Italians are using several search engines because they now know how to use them. They know which tool to use to get the exact kind of information they need.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, I think over the years, people have become much more educated about how to search—more than many marketers actually realize. And your data clearly confirms that. It’s also very similar to the data Rand Fishkin shared a few months ago, showing that the vast majority of people using Google are also using ChatGPT. Only a very small percentage are using just one or the other—either only Google or only ChatGPT.
Gianluca Fiorelli: So, if we were to visualize this with one of those classic Venn diagrams, we’d see a lot of overlap between Google, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and even Pinterest—which is still somewhat neglected as a social media platform. But Pinterest is becoming really important now, especially as product hunting becomes more and more visual.
And now, obviously, we add ChatGPT—and to some extent, Perplexity. However, I’d say Perplexity less so. I often think we’re entering a situation where, just like “Google” became the default name in classic search, in the LLM space, the name is “ChatGPT.”
Of course, in some markets, we still have to consider Bing—but honestly, it doesn’t seem like the collaboration between Bing and OpenAI has really helped Bing grow much in terms of market share.
The Rise of Search Fatigue
Gianluca Fiorelli: One of the things you talk about in relation to this—not just the change, but really the evolution of consumer behavior online—is a concept I found really interesting: search fatigue.
Searching takes time. Maybe someone starts on ChatGPT, asking for suggestions. Or maybe they begin on TikTok, where they see a product shared by an influencer or someone they follow. Then they go to Google to learn more, and after that, to ChatGPT. It takes time. It takes energy to do this kind of research.
And as you explained, search fatigue isn’t just about literal fatigue—it’s also about how the buying session, let’s call it so, is getting longer. You mentioned that we’re seeing about a 30% increase in time from discovery to purchase.
So, with that in mind, what’s one quick insight—or one practical idea—you’d suggest to a client, say, a B2C e-commerce client of yours? How can they maintain a potential customer’s attention on their brand throughout this longer journey—and not lose them before conversion?
Marco Loguercio: Well, when I meet with entrepreneurs or managers of brands or retailers, I often say something—and maybe it makes them want to kill me—but this search fatigue? It’s largely the fault of the companies because 90% of the companies I’ve worked with believe that producing content, text, images, and videos is a cost, not an investment.
They also believe that the information on their product pages or category pages is enough. But the problem is—they create that content based on what they think people need.
But when you look at it from the user’s perspective, people need much more information than entrepreneurs or managers believe and understand. That is because they want to compare, to evaluate, and to test if possible. They want to find the nearest reseller to visit or buy the product. Then they go online to read reviews and check comparisons.
If companies aren’t creating the kind of content that answers these questions, then people have to look elsewhere. And when they look elsewhere, they might land on a competitor’s website and buy competitive products. So you lose the sale.
And also, the problem is that people have to search elsewhere for this information. And they don’t know if—and this is the core of the fatigue—if the information they find is really believable, if it’s current, if it’s trustworthy. So they start thinking, “Okay, maybe the next search will be the right one.” So they start to search.
You’re probably familiar with the concept of the messy middle—well, this is it. People don’t trust the information they find, so they keep searching again and again and again, because they feel like they don’t have enough to make a decision.
And it’s funny, because if you think back 30 years ago, when the first search engines started appearing, their mission was to make it easier for people to get the right information—to get things done. It's like what Eric Schmidt used to say when he was CEO at Google.
But now, we have too much useless information. And it’s getting worse—especially because of AI. We have content factories producing spam, and honestly, I don’t like the direction the industry is going in.
This fatigue exists because companies don’t want to understand consumers. They don’t produce the content people really need in order to evaluate and decide.
Content That Truly Serves Customers
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, and it’s funny. For instance, I’m thinking about brands that are present both online—with their e-commerce—and offline, with physical stores. A good idea would be to look at which physical stores are driving the most conversions, and link it to the quality of the people working in those stores. Are the ones who convert the most also the ones who stay closest to the potential customer, suggesting what to buy and answering their questions about the product?
Because sometimes, I think there’s a misunderstanding, especially among commerce brands—that in order to sell, you just need to be cool, to inspire, to be aspirational. But actually, attention might be caught by something inspirational.
For example, my wife, if she wants to buy a skirt, the first question she asks herself is: “Is this skirt going to fit well on my body?” So instead of creating 2,000 posts about how cool the skirt is—like “Wear it on a rooftop in Rome on a late summer evening, cocktail in hand, dressed like a star”. It would be better to create a tool where I can virtually try on a skirt. Let me see how it looks on me, so I can decide if it’s the right one to buy.
And what’s strange is that Google actually understands this need much better. Google Shopping is already offering tools like this—but only a very small number of e-commerce brands in the fashion industry are doing the same.
You talked about this in the past—years ago, when you worked with Luxottica. They were already offering this kind of virtual try-on tool. But even today, that’s still more the exception than the norm.
When you were talking about content—how much useless content is being produced, instead of really useful content, so that people go to other places to find what they really want to know about the product—you were also stressing a lot about visual content. And this is obvious, because, as we said before, we know how much TikTok is influencing search and customer behavior. Instagram is another one.
But we also see it on Google—the presence of images, of videos, of shorts. Now, there are even people spotting the presence of Shorts in Google’s AI Mode. So, visual content is not new. It’s important. But somehow, it always seems to be treated as second-level content—just something that lives on YouTube, or as part of co-marketing campaigns with influencers, but not really integrated on the website itself. What do you think?
Marco Loguercio: Well, back again to what entrepreneurs and managers think—content is always seen as a cost, not an investment. And in my opinion, you have to orchestrate the content you produce.
I forgot to mention that in 2013, after leaving my first company, I also co-founded a DTC brand, a cycling apparel brand. And one of the main discussions I had with the founder and CEO at that time was about the importance of images and videos—because we were trying to differentiate.
I hate to say it, but at that time, we were an Italian company targeting the US and UK markets. So, not your classic Italian eCommerce targeting Italy, because that’s easier. We were focusing on the world—we were targeting globally.
And because of that, details mattered. Content, images, and videos were extremely important. Because if you run a brand that no one knows—one that no one has ever seen—you need high-quality pictures. You need visuals that help people dream about your product and imagine how they could use it.
So, back to your question: companies need to orchestrate how they use content. For instance, you can put product-focused images on the landing or product page, and then link to your Instagram profile for in-action pictures.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, lifestyle.
Marco Loguercio: Lifestyle pictures or other kinds, depending on the business you're talking about. Because you cannot put everything into a product page, you can't put 20 videos or 2,000 images on a single page.
But you have to help people find the kind of information they need, the kind of images they need at that moment, in order to let them figure out how to use your product—how your product could be in their hands, what they could look like wearing the product, and so on.
So, to go to the conclusion: you have to study what your customers need in order to create the right images and the right videos.
Back when I was at the company I co-founded, I remember spending a lot of nights in forums and cycling communities, trying to find out two things: the locations they were dreaming of riding their bikes and the kind of bikes they would like to ride.
So, when it came time to do the shootings, we used the bikes people were dreaming about—and chose the locations they were dreaming of riding in. So we connected all those details in order to create the perfect shooting.
And that helped us to make the difference. In five or six years, we became the fourth or fifth direct-to-consumer cycling brand in the US—and the third in the UK—just behind Rapha and other well-funded brands.
It was also because we worked on those kinds of details. That’s why I believe that images—you have to orchestrate the images and videos so people can find the information they need, find the images they need, and believe in those images. To be sure that the product they want to buy is the right one.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, and this makes me have a thought—a kind of reflection—about something that’s common, both for SEOs' predictions and for brands.
Authenticity and Insights in Online Communities
Gianluca Fiorelli: When we talk about audience and market analysis—which should be the foundation of every strategy, in any marketing field—we always say: “Okay, we must talk with customer care, we must understand what people are saying on social about our brand, about our products,” and so on.
We always see these kinds of recommendations written everywhere. But then, what I often experience is that—yes, maybe the brand, maybe the in-house SEO did that work, but then they archive it and totally forget about it.
For instance, now that Reddit—for the last couple of years—has been ruling the web, it’s considered so important to at least monitor Reddit. But I wonder: how many brands actually know how to target Redditors? Because Redditors are a beast of their own. They spot immediately if you’re there just to promote yourself.
So, have you had experience with this kind of interaction between brands and consumers outside of owned properties? I mean, on other channels like Reddit or Instagram—but not when someone is directly engaging with a brand’s social media profile. For example, on Reddit, maybe your own subreddit, or something like this. What are the common mistakes you see?
Marco Loguercio: Well, believe it or not, 99% of Italian companies simply ignore Reddit. Either because they don’t know it exists, or they don’t understand how to get value from that kind of platform or those kinds of communities.
What they do know for sure is that it’s not easy to promote a brand within the Reddit community—because, as you said, Reddit is not a promotional tool. And honestly, it’s easier to damage your brand than to get any real help in increasing sales when you're on Reddit.
So, back to the point—99% of companies are just ignoring this kind of community management on platforms like Reddit or other social networks. Or, they’re simply outsourcing it to agencies. But you know, when an agency is managing this kind of product, they don’t really own the product. They don’t truly know the heritage of the brand, the history, the values.
So it’s easier to spot when an answer is published by an agency instead of the brand.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, and in fact, what I’m thinking is that the stakeholders shouldn't even be marketers for this kind of thing. They should work with the support of marketers—someone who knows how to identify and track these kinds of conversations online—but then, the actual interaction should be owned and managed by customer care.
Because most of the time, it’s people asking: “How can I use this product?” And obviously, who better than customer care is entitled to give a correct answer—and to sound useful, not self-promotional? And this could also be a way to create trust. Because, as you said earlier, many people don’t trust branded content—it’s seen as too self-promotional.
The Dual Role of Product Pages
Gianluca Fiorelli: And speaking of that, what do you think about this trend we’re seeing now—where brands are putting tidbits of informational content about the product directly inside the product description page?
As you said earlier, we can’t put the Bible on the product page—but what about FAQs? The classic “frequently asked questions” format? In this case, again, customer care or even the store staff—if the brand has physical stores—could regularly gather and report those insights back to the company.
Marco Loguercio: Well, this is a difficult question—because I’ve worked with several fashion brands, and when you talk about content on the product page, it’s almost like a taboo.
They believe that pictures are the only thing they need, and that they should only include the most essential information on the product page—like how the product is made, the material, or how to take care of it.
In my opinion, when you talk about product pages and the content you need to put on them, you actually have a double mission.
The first mission is all about emotion. Let’s talk about products that you would like to buy because they’re fashionable. Products that you can buy by instinct. The content has to let you dream. It has to give you a reason, a motivation, for why this product is exactly the one you need. This dress is the one you need. This jacket. This pair of shoes.
And the second mission is to provide the answers to the most relevant questions. Like: “How do I get the right size?” “How can I be sure that if I order online, I’ll get the exact size I need?” or “How can I be sure that I can use this jacket in the rain or in the snow?” And so on.
So, you have to put the most relevant information on the product page—and then link to a more detailed page, like an FAQ, to provide the full set of answers people may need. I don’t know if I answered your question.
Gianluca Fiorelli: No, no—you answered it well. So, basically, using the product page as a part of a content cluster—targeting different search intents related to the product. That way, you're reaching the potential customer whether they’re in the messy middle, still in the consideration or exploration phase, or somewhere up or down the funnel.
Connecting Online and Offline Commerce
Gianluca Fiorelli: Another interesting point from your report is the convergence between online and offline. Of course, it’s not a new concept—but for a long time, there was this strong division between what I buy online and what I buy offline. Now, those two worlds have essentially merged.
A classic example I always mention is showrooming. You go to a shop, see something you like, but you’re not convinced about the price. So, you open Google Lens to check if the same product is available online for less.
But it also works the other way around. You see something online, but maybe the e-commerce store can’t deliver it, or it’s out of stock. So you start searching for it locally—adding “near me” to your query—to find a nearby store that has it, maybe even one from the same brand.
How do you see this convergence—this integration between offline and online—in the commerce space? And let’s talk about something that’s not so sexy, but is actually really important. Like the possibility, for instance, of linking Google Merchant to your Google Business Profile with local inventory integration. Very few people talk about this, but it deserves more attention. So let’s try to highlight it properly.
Marco Loguercio: So, to answer your first question—after the pandemic, what I noticed from my “observatory” is that in the past, people used to search and buy based on habits.
So, if I prefer to buy online, I use, let’s say, Google or Amazon to figure out where to get the same product cheaper, or faster, or with no shipping costs, and so on.
But now, in the past two or three years, I’ve seen that many, many Italians—my main focus is on Italians, of course, but I’ve also seen this working with fashion brands that sell and have shops worldwide—people are now searching and buying by opportunity.
So people who used to always buy online, or only in shops, now decide based on the moment.
If I see something I like online, I’ll buy it right now—even if I usually prefer to buy in a physical store. And vice versa—if I’m out shopping with my family and see a jacket I like, maybe I take out my smartphone and use Google, or Google Lens, or even ChatGPT—to get an exact summary of the reviews for that product. Well, I use it—but having the product in front of me, even if online it’s five or ten percent cheaper, I prefer to buy it right now—because I can own it right now.
And this is something really relevant. Because what’s happening—and still happens inside companies, even in 2025—is that many companies are still treating websites, e-commerce, and physical shops as two separate silos.
They don’t understand—or don’t believe—that there is a synergy between the two. And you mentioned that local inventory is very relevant because if I need a certain kind of jacket and I know there’s a store two kilometers away, the first thing I do is check if that store has my size in stock.
And if it does, in 10 minutes I’ll be there. And if I like the product, I’ll buy it. But the problem is that at least 80% of companies don’t get this opportunity. Because they still believe: “Offline has to do its job, online has to do its job.” They see them as competitors.
Too many companies still believe that e-commerce competes with the physical store. But that’s not how you build an omnichannel experience.
Because you say “People would like to buy where and when they want to buy. And when there’s an opportunity, they would like to be ready.”
And you, as a company, as a retailer, should help them find the store, find where they can get the product, find the right size, the right color—depending on the kind of product you’re trying to sell. So, again, it’s up to the companies, it’s up to the retailers to use all these tools to connect: the Google Merchant, the Google Business Profile, and the local inventory integration.
LLMs Enter Commerce: ChatGPT, Etsy, and Shopify
Gianluca Fiorelli: I want to ask you a question—and let’s talk about e-commerce and LLMs, because it’s very fresh news that ChatGPT has signed a deal with Etsy, and very soon it’s going to be operational also with Shopify, allowing us to buy doing the check out directly from the platform.
How do you see this? Who do you think is the real target of this move—apart from the internal stakeholders who maybe now need to see some revenue from all the money they’ve invested in OpenAI? But really, who should fear this the most—Amazon or Google?
Marco Loguercio: That's a good question, because I actually wrote a post on LinkedIn about this. The first thing we need to understand is how people are going to use this opportunity. We also need to talk about the shopping experience before even answering your question.
Because if you think about someone who wants to buy online for the first time, where do they go? They go to Amazon because they know—someone told them, or they read somewhere—that Amazon has stellar customer service, the lowest prices (okay... not always), and a huge inventory. So they have certain expectations.
But when you talk about shopping in ChatGPT, or on TikTok, or Instagram, it’s a completely different experience. I think it’s—well, I don’t want to call it an anomaly—but the real target of ChatGPT in this context is someone who’s already looking to buy a specific product at that moment. That person doesn’t necessarily need a particular customer experience or strong brand interaction.
For example, if you're buying a book, not a dress or a pair of shoes, there are other factors that influence the shopping experience. I’ve seen what's happened with TikTok Shop in other countries, and now that they’ve started selling in Italy, I have brands that are selling on TikTok, but honestly, they’re not very satisfied with it.
So, right now, it’s hard to answer your question. We still don’t know whether people are actually going to make purchases directly within ChatGPT’s answers. I haven’t yet seen whether the user gets redirected to the merchant’s website to complete the transaction, or if everything stays within the ChatGPT environment.
And then there’s the bigger question: who owns the data? Because in a world where first-party data is becoming increasingly important—more and more so every day—who actually gets that data? Is it ChatGPT? Is it you, as the merchant? If you’re not getting that data, then you're only capturing part of the opportunity.
So honestly, I don’t know. I can’t really answer your question yet.
Gianluca Fiorelli: No, you’re giving me even more to think about, more questions popping up. Because yes, if ChatGPT is offering this kind of opportunity, then through whom is it doing it? Through marketplaces?
For instance, they didn’t sign anything similar with e-commerce CMS providers, which would eventually force OpenAI to create some sort of analytics. In this case, I think it's Etsy and Shopify involved, and they have their own analytics and direct firewalls from OpenAI, ChatGPT, to give analytics information to the clients.
And probably that’s why we started with this sort of marketplace, substantially. In a way, it’s quite similar to Google Shopping. But Google Shopping has Google Analytics behind it, and so on.
Google did start talking a long time ago about Instant Checkout through Shopping, but I don't know if that's actually operational. I don't think so. Still, it’s different because you can see how much more experience Google has. It immediately understands when someone is searching with buying intent.
We can see it in how fast Google pushes Google Shopping and Merchant results into the SERP—even if you're just starting—because it previews in three steps, you go from searching to actually buying.
So I think the question is whether ChatGPT will be able to understand that kind of search with such anticipation. That anticipation that lets you start creating some sort of attention around certain brands shown in Shopping and Merchant, and eventually clicking through to merchant popular products, preferred stores, etc., inside the Shopify merchant ecosystem.
The Attribution Dilemma in the Age of AI
Gianluca Fiorelli: So, one last question—and this isn’t just about Italy, though you can of course give us Italian examples if you have them. It’s the classic question.
We were already struggling with Google, because over the years, it started hiding information from the metrics. So we had to become really good at web analytics—combining data from Search Console and third-party tools—in order to truly understand what was happening with our website, with traffic, and with customer behavior.
Now, with LLMs, it’s even more dramatic. We’re seeing the same with AI Overviews and even in AI Mode too—these are features that are essentially retaining users inside their own ecosystems.
So, people say, “ChatGPT converts better than Google.” Yes, but with much smaller traffic. Sure, the conversion rate might be higher—higher intent, okay—but I don’t completely buy into that narrative.
I have a hunch that all this visibility might end up bringing traffic in other forms—like direct traffic, branded traffic, type-in traffic. Traffic that ultimately gets assigned to another channel than the original one, which can be AI Overviews or ChatGPT. And maybe it eventually gets attributed to TikTok—because you rediscovered the brand there, even though you remembered it from AI Overview or ChatGPT.
How can we find a formula for correlation? Because I know Rand Fishkin—I'll cite him again—says that attribution marketing is dead. The problem is, our clients and brands still haven’t understood that attribution marketing isn’t what it used to be.
How can we find a balance—so that we ourselves are better informed, and so that our clients can also be better informed—in order to establish or adjust their own strategies?
Marco Loguercio: Well, that’s the million-dollar question. Right now, it's budget season, so every manager is asking: “How do we understand the real value of ChatGPT, Gemini, and other LLMs? What’s really going on with AI Overviews, or soon—who knows when—in Europe, with AI Mode?”
The problem is: we don’t have the data. So, the only way we can try to measure the impact these tools have on the purchase process—how they’re influencing the perception of a brand, positively or negatively—is by asking people directly. And that’s problematic because you’re relying on people—and on their memory.
You’re basically asking: “Did you use ChatGPT when you bought your last pair of shoes? What kind of information were you looking for? Was the response reliable? Was it useful? Was it convincing to you? And at the end of the day, did you decide to buy that pair of shoes because ChatGPT convinced you? Or was it simply that ChatGPT didn’t provide any negative information about it?
Back to the point—attribution models. I agree with you, they’re definitely dead, at least with the tools we have today. Because when you don’t have access to the kind of information an LLM could provide—like the number of people using it and how to track people using these tools when shopping for your brand, when shopping for products.
And there’s no easy answer right now. I know that’s not the most exciting answer I could give, but it’s the truth.
Right now, we’re all trying to build a kind of minimum viable measurement protocol—something that helps us mix together the data we do have from analytics.
The problem is, if you compare visits coming from LLMs—which, let’s remember, are not designed to send you traffic—many managers just look at the small number of visits and conclude that LLMs aren’t an interesting channel to manage, or even to monitor.
Gianluca Fiorelli: That’s exactly why I was pointing my attention toward finding this kind of correlation between visibility and uplift in traffic, or uplift in conversions.
Like when people say, “Okay, with AI Overviews we’re seeing a drop in organic traffic”—but then, if we look at the conversion rate, we see that it's at least stable, and in some cases even increasing. That, for me, means there must be some kind of correlation.
The problem is that I still haven’t found the formula to demonstrate this kind of correlation. So, on one side, I’m glad that I’m not the only one thinking this. And I’m optimistic—because I know that people like you, and many others, are much better than I am when it comes to analytics and treating this kind of data. So I believe this kind of information is going to be shared and, eventually, it’ll become possible.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Almost one hour! Yes? You wanted to tell me something?
Marco Loguercio: Yes—just one more thing. When people say they’re seeing fewer visits—because of AI Overviews, for instance, here in Italy—the question I always ask those managers is: Are you sure you're getting fewer visits because of AI Overviews? Or is it because you’re promoting less?
Because I’ve seen a lot of companies cutting their advertising budgets, and if you don’t promote your brand, people forget about it. You have to stay present, stay relevant—otherwise, you’ll be forgotten.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes, and the idea that AI Overviews are somehow killing organic traffic is becoming a kind of stereotype—especially for informational websites. But yes, they have seen a decrease in traffic.
Marco Loguercio: When you talk about publishers, I totally agree. Just a couple of days ago, I was at a meeting at Google Italy with some publishers, talking about the evolution of search. They were clearly feeling threatened by the news from Google—they were fearing AI Overviews. They were afraid of AI Mode coming to Italy. But when you talk about e-commerce, it’s not the same.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Yes. When it comes to e-commerce, it’s a different situation. And let’s see what happens—especially with Google, from the inside, trying to find the right formula to integrate merchant information into AI Mode.
Particularly in what we could call version 2.0 of AI Overview, when that arrives. Because I think what we’re experiencing now with AI Overview is just a kind of live beta test—not the final version that Google will fully deploy.
And especially when Google finds a way to insert advertising into AI—and also educate people that those ads are meant to be clicked. Because if they’re just seen, they’re not going to be useful for anyone—not even for Google.
The Athlete’s Mindset Behind Marketing Success
Gianluca Fiorelli: Let’s stop here with the marketing talk. Let’s talk a bit about you. Earlier, you hinted at a D2C e-commerce project related to cycling—and I know cycling is a real passion of yours. So, just to conclude this conversation—do you have an anecdote related to cycling? Why do you love it so much? And did cycling teach you anything about yourself—or even about your profession? Something that helped you become the wonderful person you are?
Marco Loguercio: Well, I can say that I’m a performance marketer because I used to be an SEO. But my company was a performance marketing company—we had to use all the channels in order to improve sales and promote the brand.
I’m a performance marketer because I was an athlete. And when you’re an athlete, you know that to achieve results, you have to define everything you need to do. You have to plan your training. You have to measure your improvements. You have to measure your results. You have to test.
It’s a continuous improvement process. And that mindset trained me to apply everything I learned as an athlete to my professional life.
I worked with professional trainers, and they provided me with all the information I needed to improve, what kind of KPIs to monitor related to physical performance. And when I moved into digital, I started applying all of those concepts to digital marketing.
In 2001, I wrote one of the first Italian books on performance marketing. I was trying to apply everything I had learned as an athlete to digital advertising, SEO, affiliate marketing, and so on.
So I have to thank my past for that. I wasn’t a road cyclist—I used to be a mountain biker. I was part of the Italian national team, and so on. That’s where the most important learning came from, something that really helped me when I moved into my professional career.
Even now, I believe that if you’ve been an athlete, you approach business and marketing with a different kind of motivation—because you already know the level of commitment it takes to achieve real results.
Gianluca Fiorelli: Right. Thank you, Marco—it was a real pleasure having you as my guest here on The Search Session.
Let’s see—maybe in the future, when we finally discover this famous formula for measuring visibility and conversions, or if we want to revisit this topic with a small panel and talk about the evolution of commerce after a few months of ChatGPT’s checkout rollout—we’ll get together again. Thank you.
Marco Loguercio: Thank you, Gianluca.
Gianluca Fiorelli: You’re welcome. And for you guys, remember to hit the bell and subscribe to the channel so you’ll be notified whenever a new episode comes out. That also helps us grow. Thank you, and see you very soon!
Podcast Host
Gianluca Fiorelli
With almost 20 years of experience in web marketing, Gianluca Fiorelli is a Strategic and International SEO Consultant who helps businesses improve their visibility and performance on organic search. Gianluca collaborated with clients from various industries and regions, such as Glassdoor, Idealista, Rastreator.com, Outsystems, Chess.com, SIXT Ride, Vegetables by Bayer, Visit California, Gamepix, James Edition and many others.
A very active member of the SEO community, Gianluca daily shares his insights and best practices on SEO, content, Search marketing strategy and the evolution of Search on social media channels such as X, Bluesky and LinkedIn and through the blog on his website: IloveSEO.net.
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